rawdog

Been waiting till the thread was moved to say this.

I'm very, very concerned that certain individuals are going to read this as victory/capitulation over Abbie and double-up on their attacks on her. This is why I'm not big on appeasement.

Anyways, I really hope I'm wrong.

Statistics: Posted by EveryMan — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:52 pm

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The MRA's are societies Yang to the Femmie Yin.

And they are equally irritating and unnecessary.

Statistics: Posted by EveryMan — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:49 pm

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I think Justicar is rad, but he can be a drama queen. Literally.

Hopefully he'll lighten up and join up.

Statistics: Posted by EveryMan — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:46 pm

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Skepcheck wrote:
Everyman: That wikiP link is very interesting. I have often had thoughs along those lines, but didn't know it was an actual *thing* with a name.

I'm a GenX'er and this was a huge, huge thing when I was undergrad. In fact it, it contributed to me dropping out of a liberal arts college and getting into the whole 'scientific skepticism' thing. Postmodernism is my own personal White Whale.

I'll also suggest checking out the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense

It's important to note that what "worked" to some extent in dealing with these people was trolling/exposing them.

Statistics: Posted by EveryMan — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:39 pm

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Just read sacha's post a couple up from mine... looking forward to the follow up.

Statistics: Posted by JAB — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:38 pm

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CommanderTuvok wrote:
...Adults Only

More like NSFL (Not Safe For Life, to use reddit's lingo). After witnessing his pathetic attempts to insinuate himself into the forefront of skeptic/atheist movement since the elevator nontroversy, I find the sight of his face deeply nauseating (it doesn't help that he gives off creepy ass vibe).

Strangely, I didn't find his e-mail to Justin threatening, just abusive. Am I the only one?
I feel that this is just another case of some internet bravado from a keyboard warrior, who knew full well that he was at safe distance from Justin.
If Justin physically confronts him, I bet he would immediately scurry away.

What I found so despicable was the psychological abuse he inflicted by trying to evoke in Justin the trauma of having caused other people's death.
Most people in the developed countries, I wager, would find the act of killing or causing death very repulsive, and traumatizing. They wouldn't kill even a chicken if they don't have to, let alone humans.

Statistics: Posted by Heintje — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:37 pm

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Stretchycheese wrote:
Everyman, I don't see it that way. Perhaps there's a tendency in some social sciences and humanities to see human nature in terms of blank slatism and social constructivism (women's studies faculties in particular), but I don't see the conflict rooted in hard science vs. social science disciplinary thinking. After all, I'm a social scientist myself (political science mostly) and many FTB/Skepchick supporters have hard science backgrounds.

I see the divide in terms of people who have very strong and often dogmatic gender identity politics vs. people who don't. People with backgrounds in both social and hard sciences have fallen on either side of the fence.

The crux of the particular brand of feminism that is prevalent on teh InterWebZ & FfTB in particular if of the "postmodern" variety. Again, their "privilege/patriarchy" language is a dead giveaway. Both of these notions are pure fiction. Biology drives social roles; not the other way around.

Men both produce more and are more sensitive to the male sex hormone, testosterone. A direct consequence of this is that men are about 50% stronger than women, on average. Ergo, they can work harder, longer and more dangerous jobs. Hence the income disparity.

Men also die earlier than women. Hence the population and wealth disparity. There is no free lunch in nature.

Statistics: Posted by EveryMan — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:32 pm

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Couple of things...
I want to remind everyone how long FfTBs took with their teething problems when they started up. The process here has been remarkably smooth in comparison.

re Justi. I think a time out from us will likely be good for him. Alternatively, maybe he's trying to get inside, play nice with FfTBs, get an invite, and pull a TFoot.

Statistics: Posted by JAB — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:21 pm

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masakari2012 wrote:
The likes to dislikes ratio is about 5 to 1, so far.

I'm surprised it's not been Pharyngulated <snurk!>

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:11 pm

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I'll be taking the Pit offline for around 10 minutes tomorrow for maintenance. I'll give around 30 minutes notice of the downtime.

This is to install the mod which allows versioning of comments, so that originals of edited comments can be retrieved.

When I've installed it we can kick the tyres and see what it looks like. At that point the two minutes currently allowed for editing may be extended, but we'll need to talk about how long the window should be. My thoughts are that we should keep it relatively short, perhaps an hour or two. Anything longer is an invitation to revisionism rather than correction and amplification, and may lead to the phenomenon of responses being included in postings UPTHREAD, which would be a royal PITA to track.

As always, comments and thoughts gratefully received...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:06 pm

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Lsuoma wrote:

masakari2012 wrote:The likes to dislikes ratio is about 5 to 1, so far.

I'm surprised it's not been Pharyngulated <snurk!>

Maybe it already has been Pharyngulated, and the ratio is still 5 to 1

Statistics: Posted by masakari2012 — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:15 pm

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John Greg wrote:
Let's, please, all of us, including the fainting Aunt Nannies, get a fucking grip on some adult fucking reality, please.

The core of this entire "debate" resolves around dipshits over-reacting to non-issues.

That the management here desires to keep certain content off this blog is a non-issue. Which you and others are over-reacting too.

You do the math.

Statistics: Posted by EveryMan — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:12 pm

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Tuvok: It is strange seeing Justicar act like a Baboon. Give him time - he might recover.

not a chance. This is not the first time. He really went above and beyond my point in comments at ERV. I'll find them and link them. please give me a few moments.
I also got in the last word, and it was quite a last word. I've been waiting to see what he was going to do about that, and now I have my answer.

Justicar has always, and will always put himself and his agenda first. He did that at the end with Abbie, who deserves it less than any of us.

Horace: Sorry could you give a quick reference to what happened with Justicar ?

yes, I would be happy to, it is quite a bit of information, so I shall continue in the next comment I make, after I link what I wrote. I'd also link Justicar's responses, but as we all know he had 20 compared to my three, so you will have to read from my first post until my last, towards the end of the final page.

Maskari: Yeah, I don't think we should be so quick to shun Justicar. He may be going through issues on his end...

Unlike Laden, I do not tell anyone to shun, or even agree with me, unless they came to that conclusion on their own. Nor will I think differently about anyone who defends him.
I will say this. Justi is not going to join the baboons. His comment was not a gift, nor was it in good faith. It was a quite deliberate comment there.

Firstly Justi needs to feel as though he is always in control. He acted as if he was the official spokesperson for the ERV slimepit, and led many to believe that Abbie appointed him.
He exaggerated his relationship with her, in order to make it appear that he and Abbie were in constant contact and discussed at length whatever he wanted to implement, or be the last word on.

(This is why I went directly to Abbie to ask for her perspective and thoughts.)

At the end, he flat out lied about what Abbie wanted. Spoke for her, as if he was reading a press release that she wrote herself.

The only thing that matters to Justicar is his agenda. If he can use Abbie to secure what he himself wants, then he will (and did). Abbie is far too kind to demand that he come clean, and she was in a difficult place, she was truly struggling with the decisions, and was not secure with her decision to step away, and telling people how to behave is against what she believes in. Abbie, please correct me if I am wrong, I do not feel comfortable speaking for you, but I do want to give some background about this
That is the last time I will speak for Abbie unless she specifically asks me to relay a message, and then it will be word for word.
The last few days at ERV, Justicar chose to engage in heated discussions with both Scented Nectar and John Greg. Nectar was voicing her opinion on a "kinder, gentler" slime pit, one which would allow those who agree with us on things like FfTB, but were not willing to be seen participating at the original. ( As an aside, I agreed with her competely). Nectar was not confrontational, or attacking anyone, she was simply responding to the conversation about toning it down at the new place. It is all still there, you can read her comments for yourself.

Justicar's response to her was not only completely uncalled for, his commentary was written as if he were speaking for Abbie. Do not take my word for it, read it for yourself. That was bad enough, but he continued to allow Nectar to spend the time and energy arguing with him and defending her position when he did not even know what Abbie thought about it! He used Abbie's "wishes" as an excuse to ridicule and silence Nectar, leading everyone to believe he had spoken to Abbie about tone, language, and memes at the new place. He did not.
The reason I know, is that Abbie posted a brief comment about her opinions on that topic, and they were the antithesis of what Justicar was spewing in her name. Enough people took his word for what Abbie wants, they were quoting him and attributing it to Abbie, or speaking for Abbie themselves.

He played a similiar game with John Greg. Showing him ridicule and contempt for wanting to make sure that he understood, so that he could do the right thing and protect Abbie. Justicar again wasted someone's time and energy by baiting them into an argument about why he was an idiot for not understanding his vague orders and again acting as if he were getting his information from Abbie, and also that he cared more about her than everyone else, and that he is the only one doing what is best for Abbie... Well, again, a complete fabrication. I don't even have to tell you what Abbie told me, she posted a comment about how she knew that even if one reads the Nat Geo terms of conduct, it was still extremely confusing what behaviour was going to be tolerated. She admitted she knew no better than us.

My first email to Abbie bearly mentioned Justicar and the others who were speaking for her. I simply wanted to hear how she felt, from her.

She explained her position in detail, and all I can say is that it did not bear any similiarities to what Justi was saying.

I don't think Justicar ever expected anyone to contact Abbie. I think he was quite secure that everyone believed him, so my first comment came as a surprise to him. If you notice, I was not attacking him in the first comment, I simply pointed out that he was not the best person to relay Abbie's thoughts, especially when her security is on the line.

Justicar jeopardised Abbie's well being to suit his agenda. Consider that for a moment while I find the links to my comments...

Statistics: Posted by sacha — Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:15 pm

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It's so great to read the comments on Thunderf00t's video. More and more people are voicing their dislike for PZ and FfTB. Too bad not all of these people are commenting on FfTB's posts instead. PZ Myers would have a lot of people to block.

As for the people who may think that Thunderf00t is getting likes only because of his followers, they should know that anyone can rate and comment on his video. That consists of...

1 - people who may blindly support Thunderf00t,
2 - people who follow Thunderf00t, but rate and disagree honestly,
3 - people who are not Thunderf00t subscribers/fans, but watched the video and agree,
4 - people who are not Thunderf00t fans, but watch his videos to troll throughout the years,
5 - and even the FTB supporters who went there to dislike the video.

The likes to dislikes ratio is about 5 to 1, so far.

Statistics: Posted by masakari2012 — Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:53 pm

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Just to make dustbubble feel at home, BAWBAG.

Statistics: Posted by SenorBeagle — Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:46 pm

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Knackers

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:35 pm

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Lsuoma wrote:
Everyone should be glad to know that the maximum length of username permitted here at the Pit is just twenty characters, so if ever any of the "laughing accepting tolerant folks who don’t have to conform to the comfortable median" should register here, they won't be able to use tedious "Wanker, Pretentious Self Designation of Pompous Highfalutin' Concept" monikers...

Never mind that, where's my OM for coming up with the Porcupine Free Zone? Am I on the right blog?

Statistics: Posted by bhoytony — Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:24 pm

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Ooooh, it's been years since I've heard the word goolies. Now I feel properly at home!

Statistics: Posted by SenorBeagle — Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:14 pm

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Phil, peut-etre parce que nous Americains sommes l'origine du problème? If you *really* want, perhaps I can come to France, stamp my feet in indignation at every minor offense, insist that you speak English because I do, etc. Partager est prendre soins, non?

Désolé, je parle comme une vache Espagnol.

Statistics: Posted by 0verlord — Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:16 pm

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So that's why he's not around. The guy is Jeckyl and Hyde. When he's on song he focuses like a laser and lays down a solid chain of logic that's quite impressive. The he suddenly goes off on one and he won't be talked down.

My 2 cents, 5 minutes would be fine as long as there is a recoverable audit trail. If a subsequent commenter feels compromised by an edit they can ask for the original to be reinstated.

Statistics: Posted by ThreeFlangedJavis — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:58 pm

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John Greg wrote:
Lsuoma, how many comments display per page?

I am not intending to throw spanners into gears, but I don't like this endless stuff (I know, I know, ya'll just can't please everyone -- I'm just making a comment, don't changing anything on my account) cause it takes up so much real estate. Not to worry, I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Eventually.

Currently 100. It was 10 by default, which someone pointed out was far too few. 50 may be a better option, especially if we start to get long posts...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:49 pm

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I use Adblock Plus, a Google Chrome extension, to avoid giving FfTB blog hits. The extension blocks the ads on their page. It seems to be working fine so far, and it doesn't slow down my browser. Is this the best method? Does anyone use any other extensions?

Statistics: Posted by masakari2012 — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:41 pm

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Lsuoma, how many comments display per page?

I am not intending to throw spanners into gears, but I don't like this endless stuff (I know, I know, ya'll just can't please everyone -- I'm just making a comment, don't changing anything on my account) cause it takes up so much real estate. Not to worry, I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Eventually.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:46 pm

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Yeah, I don't think we should be so quick to shun Justicar. He may be going through issues on his end. If he does join up with FfTB and swears allegiance to the baboolies, then all I can do is wish him the best.... while we continue the fight against the dogma. I personally won't hate him for it. It's still an online argument, not a real war. Even as frustrating as it gets sometimes, when arguing against radfem dogma.

Statistics: Posted by masakari2012 — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:37 pm

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click on the post

Sorry, that should have been, Click on the Title Header of the specific comment, copy the URL data from your browser address bar (or whatever it's called), and post that link in your new comment.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:41 pm

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Look at the link that Sacha posted at 11:12pm

We cannot refer to posts by their post time, because the time shows up for each of us as whatever we set it in our User Control Panel. The best thing to do, and it's pretty easy, is pop open another instance of the page, click on the post, and link directly to it.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:39 pm

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The most negative impression I've had about the MRM has to do with the "dudebros" (for lack of better term.) I got this impression from reading MRA blogs and watching Youtube videos (e.g., girlwriteswhat), specifically their comment sections. Despite that, my experiences with MRAs in general -- unlike with feminists in general -- is mostly positive.

Are the dudebros "real" MRAs? That's about as meaningful and helpful as asking if the shrieking harpies and career victims who call themselves feminists are "real" feminists. I prefer to take people at their word and assume that when they say they are this or that, they're speaking honestly. I judge the whole based on my general experiences with their constituency and those impressions are subject to change as my experiences are broadened.

Statistics: Posted by 0verlord — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:36 pm

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Just like old times!

Statistics: Posted by Dilurk — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:36 pm

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Everyone should be glad to know that the maximum length of username permitted here at the Pit is just twenty characters, so if ever any of the "laughing accepting tolerant folks who don’t have to conform to the comfortable median" should register here, they won't be able to use tedious "Wanker, Pretentious Self Designation of Pompous Highfalutin' Concept" monikers...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:37 pm

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masakari2012 wrote:
I use Adblock Plus, a Google Chrome extension, to avoid giving FfTB blog hits. The extension blocks the ads on their page. It seems to be working fine so far, and it doesn't slow down my browser. Is this the best method? Does anyone use any other extensions?

Yea, use Ghostery, RequestPolicy and NoScript.

I see very little shit with these turned on. It takes a little time to train these three, but well worth the effort. I think, though, that they may be Firefox only, although I've heard of something called NotScript for Chrome.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:44 pm

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Thanks Overlord. Anyone else?

I am really interested in the negative connotations that some people appear to have though, and if they can put their finger on where they picked up their perceptions in particular.

For example, last time I swung by Reddit they appeared to have quite a few "for reals" misogynists in there and easy picking for Manboobz.

So that is what I am really interested in:

- MRAs are misogynists___.
- I got this impression from Reddit/Manboobz_____.

Statistics: Posted by AndrewV69 — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:24 pm

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sacha wrote:
I am unable to respond to your message. The default is no access to sending messages until one has posted a sufficient number of times.

I'm wondering what there is that can't be discussed in public.

There's clearly a strong distaste for back chat around here, and I prefer to have stuff out in the open.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:24 pm

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Sorry could you give a quick reference to what happened with Justicar ?

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:23 pm

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Ah, I was wondering what FNG stood for. That's not very nice, is it.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:22 pm

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Hello sacha dahling. We were discussing Justi over here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=65 . You may or may not, want to have a look.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:21 pm

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I think he might be pissy because he was in full flow when Abbie locked the thread down.

He also seems somewhat disdainful of me, referring to me as the FNG (it's a Vietnam-era term, I believe, and stands for Fuckin' new Guy.)

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:20 pm

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John Greg wrote:
Dadabhoy, I know nothing about. But why are Greg Laden (a known and admitted Cyberstalker and all around bully and issuer of email threats of violence to colleagues), Stephanie Zvan (another well known Cyberstalker), and Rebecca Watson (a highly unpleasant person whose primary means of debate are to belittle, demean, insult, and dismiss), on a panel to discuss internet bullying?

Yes, the irony is delicious. No doubt we will get Queen Bee and Black Svan boring the audience the death with their own tales of how they face horrific abuse on the net, while sitting next to a smirking Osama Greg Laden. Queen Bee will also have some anecdote about being drunk. I sure hope Dadabhoy knows the Baboon Narrative Department will be keeping a close eye on what she says.

Statistics: Posted by CommanderTuvok — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:15 pm

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Since AndrewV69 expressed interest... Express your current understanding of Men's Rights Advocates and the Men's Rights Movement.

I'll answer first. MRAs, and the MRM, are a response to the negative social consequences of feminism. They consist of both men and women who are aware of the laws and social practices -- largely inspired and put in place by activist feminists -- that cause a great deal of harm to men. This harm may be to their reputations, their careers, their families, or even their lives (e.g., wrongful incarceration and permanent sex offender status via false rape allegation). MRAs tend to be conservative, family-oriented, hard working men who have been burned in the past by women who abuse such laws and practices for their own ends. The women in the MRM tend to know these sorts of men, are simply standing up on principle for the men in their lives, or both.

That is my jumbled understanding of the MRM and MRAs as they are today. Regrettably, I do not maintain any sort of optimism the MRM will not someday largely become a "revenge" campaign the way feminism has.

Statistics: Posted by 0verlord — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:12 pm

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My understanding of what MRAs are, is that, like feminists, they cover a broad range from the John What'sits who go naked into yonder wild woods and shout at trees and then hug 'em to death, to men and women who are ordinary humanists with a slightly stronger focus on men's rights than on women's rights.

And of course there is the FfTB Hinterland variant which comes out in spring in his wooly hibernation fur and is pretty much any biped with a doohickeydangley bit somewhere down there between his bifurcated fundament. But for all the actual factual data supplied by FfTB, they might just be more examples of bigfoots.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:19 pm

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Statistics: Posted by sacha — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:12 pm

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Would like to, but I'm in the wrong country and I'm poor. Pity, because without Queen Bee, PZ Barnum, and Opheliar, it will be a great event.

Statistics: Posted by CommanderTuvok — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:10 pm

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Dilurk:

I rather think most of the sound and fury is due to misunderstandings due to text

Doubt that. They have been informed often enough what the Slimers mean, and don't mean, by the words they find objectionable. What would reconciliation mean anyway? Would you become active on their blogs? The problem many of us have with them is their hypocrisy and tendency to swarm over foreign bodies with stock rejoinders like immune cells, which is not a new phenomenon. They have never acknowledged the tendency to become on-eyed when challenged, so why would they start now? Are you willing to ditch your principles to go along with them when you see them going after somebody in a frenzy? Look at the piss-poor quality of Stefunny's reasoning, and ask yourself how a people of PZ's, or Watson's, intelligence could keep their mouths shut about it if they had any honesty. Just read Queen Bee's ludicrous response to Justin Vacula's questions and ask yourself if you can see getting along with people who see nothing wrong with that. If you want to reconcile, send PZ a nice email, but don't blame anyone else if it ends up as an 'I get Email', then you get blocked from responding.

Statistics: Posted by ThreeFlangedJavis — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:18 pm

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Okay, CONvergence 2012 talk time.

(I hope I have the right venue, here)

So, appropos of not much of anything, I thought I'd point out that Jason Tibbittitydoughboy is on some panels for Convergence con 2012 (http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... -schedule/). That's a pretty darned scary thought if you ask me. But on to specifics.

According to Tibeedeedydoh, one of the panels is:

Don’t Feed the Trolls - Friday July 6, 2012 2:00pm – 3:00pm @ Atrium 4

Sexism, misogyny & the internet. A discussion about the recent wave of internet bullying against women and what we can do about it. Panelists: Heina Dadabhoy, Greg Laden, Stephanie Zvan, Jason Thibeault, Rebecca Watson

Dadabhoy, I know nothing about. But why are Greg Laden (a known and admitted Cyberstalker and all around bully and issuer of email threats of violence to colleagues), Stephanie Zvan (another well known Cyberstalker), and Rebecca Watson (a highly unpleasant person whose primary means of debate are to belittle, demean, insult, and dismiss), on a panel to discuss internet bullying?

Is it perhaps because they are all first-hand experts on successful methods of Internet bullying and how to cover it up?

Hmm? Enquring minds want to know. Discuss!

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:09 pm

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It is strange seeing Justicar act like a Baboon. Give him time - he might recover.

Statistics: Posted by CommanderTuvok — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:16 pm

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John Greg wrote:

Don’t Feed the Trolls - Friday July 6, 2012 2:00pm – 3:00pm @ Atrium 4

Sexism, misogyny & the internet. A discussion about the recent wave of internet bullying against women and what we can do about it. Panelists: Heina Dadabhoy, Greg Laden, Stephanie Zvan, Jason Thibeault, Rebecca Watson

Dadabhoy, I know nothing about. But why are Greg Laden (a known and admitted Cyberstalker and all around bully and issuer of email threats of violence to colleagues), Stephanie Zvan (another well known Cyberstalker), and Rebecca Watson (a highly unpleasant person whose primary means of debate are to belittle, demean, insult, and dismiss), on a panel to discuss internet bullying?

Is it perhaps because they are all first-hand experts on successful methods of Internet bullying and how to cover it up?

Hmm? Enquring minds want to know. Discuss!

Holy shit, that's fucked up!

BTW, it's bullying against 'teh wimminz': has GBL been accused of that (yet)?

Also, the be pedantic, there is nothing in what you posted stated that the intent is to discuss how to STOP bullying at all: it may be the case that they want to promote and expand it.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:15 pm

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Be patient, helpinghand, the Baboons will give us plenty of stuff soon enough. Plus, I can't be arsed to trawl through their shit at this moment in time.

I'm sure there will be a new controversy round the corner.

Anyway, here's picture of a young Greg Laden threatening a junior.

Statistics: Posted by CommanderTuvok — Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:07 pm

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Come on, Tuvok! It has been minutes. Give me something. A Greta too tired. A Myer's misconjugated verb. Anything.

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:59 pm

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It's OK, a few teething problems are expected.

BTW, the only thing you can do is "report" posts. So the delete/edit buttons are not available.

Statistics: Posted by CommanderTuvok — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:58 pm

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CommanderTuvok wrote:
Thanks, Lsuoma.

This is the thread the FC5 will continue to fear.

NP. Glad to help. Sorry I misread the need for this.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:55 pm

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Thanks, Lsuoma.

This is the thread the FC5 will continue to fear.

Statistics: Posted by CommanderTuvok — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:54 pm

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It's him! It's him! <faints...>

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:48 pm

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Available here. Nobody can post new threads in this forum apart from mods. Nobody can delete or edit posts apart from mods.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:47 pm

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I once saw a creepy dude driving one of these down the sidewalk:



He had a percolator on the back and he was trying to lure drunken waifs out of the bars to "sober up... waaay up". What's the world coming to?!?! Guys, don't do that!

Statistics: Posted by Parge — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:46 pm

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Heh.

I was the eldest sibling and have absolutely no recollections of doing anything like that to my younger sister. Nope. Not at all. Oh look, something shiny over there!

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:42 pm

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No sign of edit or delete buttons from this user's point of view.

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:34 pm

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Test test. Check check.

The F-22 Raptor makes for an impressive demonstration.

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:33 pm

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Now he's got a cup of coffee!

Ya, but does he have a 4 a.m. Otis elevator to go with it? That's the critical risk factor for level pink threat potential.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:30 pm

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No sign of edit or delete buttons from this user's point of view.

<cm_burns>
Excellent!
</cm_burns>

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:38 pm

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I still like the old term I used when a wean of 7 or 8 - goolies. My sister used to have a neat trick (well, it only worked a couple of times till my mater caught on).

"Lsuoma," she would say, "go and ask mum what 'bollocks' means!" Stupid Little Lsuoma did so, of course, and received the appropriate punishment. Also of course, I dobbed in the little shitbag that had told me to do so.

Oh, and I used to run the stud book for an equestrian society, and the abbreviation I used for a gelding in my notes was "PHO," meaning plums hacked off...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:36 pm

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scrollscrollscroll ... Sheesh, you coulda linked to it. My scroll finger hurts. Call the blog poolice, decius assaulted my scroll finger! I jest, I jest.

Oh, yes, I see. I did miss that post. Ok ... readreadread.

decius said:

he peddled a Zazzle button that read "I did X to Y and I survived", where X is in fact a felony in any country, not just the USA.

Um, okay, well, without knowing what "X" or "Y" is, it's pretty darn hard to state an opinion, I've done lots and lots of X's to various Y's, but, well, okay. But, even so, peddling buttons is a threat? Really? Wow. Where do you live?

To me that's little different than saying "that's a nice house you have there", which is also a metaphor, contains no directly stated intention to harm and yet people are routinely convicted over it.

WTF? Convicted over saying you have a nice house?!? What the fuck are you talking about?

I'm no expert, but let me quote you this:....

Again, selling or promoting buttons is intimidation? A threat? A crime? decius, what the fuck?!?

Then there's an ethical objection to such language. It is not part of rational discourse. I would be interested to know if you think otherwise.

Huh, what language is not part of rational discourse? Who the fuck gets to make blanket definitions of what is or is not part of rational discourse? Who the fuck are you decius? The King High Poobah of rational fucking discourse? I thought that was PeeZus's job.

I do not see much evidence of you being rational decious, I really don't.

Finally, Franc has opened his very cuntkick blog. All you fans could easily take that part there and stop embarrassing the rest of us.
Why can't you do just that? Why should your free-speech fundamentalism more important than real legal concerns for our host?
If there's no risk, why do you guys keep on laying it on other people's doorstep?

Wha? Now you have completely lost me. I truly do not know what the fuck you are talking about. I really don't

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:24 pm

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HelpingHand wrote:
Talking about the worst threats of all? Fine, you asked for it...

Lsuoma, the next time you are at a conference, you should get access to a secured green room, sleep in a different hotel and generally be safe!

Are you coming on to me???

Help, help! I'm getting hit up for teh sexytiem! OH. MY. FUCKING. GOD! Now he's got a cup of coffee!!!!!!!11!

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:29 pm

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Anyone know what to make of this video?

object

Statistics: Posted by Dilurk — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:24 pm

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She sounds like a robot. Really difficult to listen to...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:27 pm

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He does look like a pissed off Dick Cheney and since Dick Cheney is already always pissed off, that's saying something.

Statistics: Posted by StueNever — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:26 pm

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Not Registered wrote:
Would a mod like the following: http://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/p ... revisions/ solve most peoples problems with editing? (By its description, it tracks the revisions to a post.)

Just thought Id suggest it.

Thanks very much indeed, Not Registered. I'll take a look, and may install if I like the look of it.

For the time being there is a no-delete/no-edit thread going on over here. It appears very much as though I misjudged the demand for such a beast, but I'm not one to say that I never make mistakes.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:23 pm

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Thank you. I think over the long term it will be a great boon for at least us non feed subscribers to have One Thread where the bulk of the mockery can be easily found.

Now after several days of mostly reading about slimepit infighting, I demand freshly mined FTB tard. Those who are willing to taint their browser cache, into the mines and bring me choice morsels that I might facepalm and be briefly amused!

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:20 pm

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Talking about the worst threats of all? Fine, you asked for it...

Lsuoma, the next time you are at a conference, you should get access to a secured green room, sleep in a different hotel and generally be safe!

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:26 pm

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Yer welcome. Can you see if you can edit your post? And maybe make a little test post and try to delete that?

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:25 pm

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HelpingHand wrote:
No biggie either way. I likely won't be threatening to stomp out or kick anybody's ass over this.

Ass kicking is the least of the worries here...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:18 pm

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Would a mod like the following: http://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/p ... revisions/ solve most peoples problems with editing? (By its description, it tracks the revisions to a post.)

Just thought Id suggest it.

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:17 pm

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Lsuoma wrote:

CommanderTuvok wrote:We could do with a general 'Periodic Table of Swearing' thread, where most of our discussion takes place. At the moment, there are just posts going up all over the place.

This has been suggested a couple of times and I'm more and more coming round to the idea of it.

Lemme cons one up...

I give you the 'Periodic Table of Swearing' thread. On phpBB threads have to be contained in a topic, hence the hierarchy.

There is precisely one thread there, and nobody apart from mods should be able to create new threads (to keep this all in one place), or to edit or delete threads - perhaps someone can try and see whether I've set the permissions up correctly to prevent this: how about you, Tuvok?

Post in that thread how it's working for you...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:17 pm

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One place to rule them all. Nobody apart from mods can create new threads. Editing posts and deleting posts has been disabled.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:13 pm

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John, I believe some scrambling of post order occurred.

There's a long post addressed to you on this page, which you appear to have missed, for I see no mention of it anywhere in your posts.

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:11 pm

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I would like to put my vote in to increase it back to 15 minutes, if not 30.

My understanding is that the concern over editing capability derives from worry that brain dead, embarassing or mockingly feeble posts will be edited beyond recognition once others have begun to point and laugh. This leaves the ones laughing looking like goobers when the target of the mockery has been rewritten into brilliance. Yes?

I generally see the timeframe for this occuring on a scale measured in hours at the shortest -- far longer than any edit window thus discussed.

The edit button will have value to me when I write, "There house is brown." If I have not caught that during writing, editing and previewing, I am not going to catch it within two minutes of posting. It will be after I pour myself a drink, respond to a work email, and reload the page to see if any new comments have been made. That is when my brain has taken the necessary step back to actually read the post and catch those silly little errors that require fixes.

No biggie either way. I likely won't be threatening to stomp out or kick anybody's ass over this.

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:10 pm

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Folks, I need to hit the hay. Thanks for the convo. Tomorrow I'll be very busy with my work, so I might reply later than that. Till then, take care.

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:19 pm

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decius you posted:

John, I don't think you addressed any of my important points, nor did you answer my direct questions. Moreover, I already granted that your interpretation differs and could be more correct than mine.
Please, take your time but do a fairer job, if possible.

So, yes, I am confused. What did I not address? What did I not answer? I must be missing something here.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:01 pm

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Now THOSE are the sort of posts I COULD censor!

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:59 pm

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The opinion I have been given is that Franc's posting doesn't even come close to constituting a threat. I overreacted in locking the thread, and apologize for having done it. I hope I have set it right again.

Lsuoma, thanks for that. I was actually just about to post a request that you ask your legal advice to render an opinion.

Also, thanks for stating that you feel you overreacted. Bravo. I thought I had good reason to respect you.

And, as for myself, I am comfortable with your four guidelines. They make sense to me. And yes of course, if something comes up that puts you in any sort of legal jeopardy, you MUST take care of yourself first.

Bravo to you.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:59 pm

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BTW: another think Justicar may not like is the fact that at present posts are limited to 60,000 characters...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:58 pm

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???

I am lost.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:07 pm

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John Greg wrote:
And if we have to get rid of edit to satisfy some kind of hardcore paranoia about post modification, okay, let's do it.

Edit is currently down to two minutes. I can remove entirely, and may choose to do so if a better case be made to me for removing it than keeping it.

I'm not ideologically wedded to having it, plus as mod I can edit anyway

As has been pointed out there is a preview button here, plus one can save drafts for later.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:57 pm

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Abbie has been sharing our views for a while, and still hasn't changed her stance. But, and it's very legitimate, she feared there might be financial repercusions if we continued playing it rough on her turf. Fine by me. As for the malignant nature of the opposition, there is nothing, nope, zip, zero, ziffre, you could ever do to stop them deforming and misconstruing whatever you say, wether polite or blatantly rude. No hope there.

Please notice that deforming something innocuous doesn't pave their way to court, whereas veiled or ambiguous threats might.

You never confronted Franc, you just called the waaaaabulance.

That's one way to put it. But it didn't occur in a vacuum. I had been discussing this with him for quite some time, so he's perfectly familiar with my points.
On the other hand, he never feels the need to consult with anyone before fragging the place. So, why should he be granted rights he doesn't recognise in others?

Also, you attributed to me what other people (some of those who left in a huff) told him. Or do they have to ask Franc's or your permission in a formal debate before decide they had enough?

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:05 pm

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John Greg wrote:
Huh?

I am, frankly, baffled.

So you better spell out in detail what I did not address or answer.

I guess you went straight to my reply to Phil and missed the one above to you.

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:57 pm

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John Greg wrote:
I see no threat. I repeat, I see no threat. I see a metaphoric allusion to an imaginary act carried out in the past and presumptive future tense by Zvan. I see no threat. Explain please, and you can easily do so without using any of the words you do not like, the specific promised/implied/suggested future action and/or statement of intent and purpose that is a threat?

The opinion I have been given is that Franc's posting doesn't even come close to constituting a threat. I overreacted in locking the thread, and apologize for having done it. I hope I have set it right again.

Because, ideally, we do not work through Chinese whispers or backchannels or complaints to a non-existent higher aithority. That's "what's wrong with that". Franc does not shoot people. Anyone can confront Franc directly, although they better work pretty hard on making a meaningful and logical argument, because that's something he really does specialize in.

See the policy/guidelines/rules here.

I also believe I overreacted in this post.

Now that people understand how the Pit will function, they can choose to stay or go, participate or not, post or lurk.

Nobody is being forced to do anything they'd prefer not to...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:52 pm

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CommanderTuvok wrote:
We could do with a general 'Periodic Table of Swearing' thread, where most of our discussion takes place. At the moment, there are just posts going up all over the place.

This has been suggested a couple of times and I'm more and more coming round to the idea of it.

Lemme cons one up...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:01 pm

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decius wrote:
Phil, there are a couple of differences, as I see it. Abbie initially shared your views, true, then thought better of it. Part of the reason is that she understood the malignant nature of the opposition, which would stop at nothing (perhaps you'll agree to this).

Secondly, Franc today has escalated the rhetoric and pushed it a little closer to overt threat.

Thirdly, I confronted Franc openly, as you can see on the relevant threads. Lsuoma presumably can also read. Someone left in disgust and notified his reasons via PM. What's wrong with that?

Would it be this thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10

Abbie has been sharing our views for a while, and still hasn't changed her stance. But, and it's very legitimate, she feared there might be financial repercusions if we continued playing it rough on her turf. Fine by me. As for the malignant nature of the opposition, there is nothing, nope, zip, zero, ziffre, you could ever do to stop them deforming and misconstruing whatever you say, wether polite or blatantly rude. No hope there.

Franc has his own way of using rhetorics. These often work as triggers that allow us to witness the utter silliness of the FC5 crew. Anyway, Franc can defend himself alright.

You never confronted Franc, you just called the waaaaabulance.

Franc posts a link to a pin, your answer? "You know, I'm truly fucking fed up with this nonsense. You can't just let go and do something productive and intelligent, can you?
You could, of course, but you wouldn't.

Fuck off, Hoggle. I mean it."

Then later: "I want that post/link removed ASAP. Or I'm out of this place, and all I brought comes with me.

Sorry, but I thought we had a deal as a community."

Then, the probably unhappy poster: "Agreed. Just PMed Lsuoma with my thoughts. I'm out of here.

Hoggle, you are a truly odious prick."

And that last piece from you: "That's the most precious piece of delusional writing I've come across in a long time.

Now you have removed it from there, and immediately escalated even further in another threat here.

You plainly want to us to leave in droves. So be it.

I for one, won't put up with your vile threats. I'm from the birthplace of mafia, I know how you bullies think and operate and can't possibly breathe your same air."

That's not confrontation, that's at best, special pleading, and at worst, emotional blackmail.

Statistics: Posted by Phil_Giordana_FCD — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:48 pm

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Huh?

I am, frankly, baffled.

So you better spell out in detail what I did not address or answer.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:48 pm

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John, I don't think you addressed any of my important points, nor did you answer my direct questions. Moreover, I already granted that your interpretation differs and could be more correct than mine.
Please, take your time but do a fairer job, if possible.

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:46 pm

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Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:44 pm

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And these are the places where my brain wanders...

You all familiar with the geographical distribution of terms describing those cans of sugary fizzy beverages? An example: http://www.popvssoda.com/

I would like to see similar data for a variety of common terms of endearment of various body parts. Are jimmies strongly peferred in various regions over such terms as nads or stones? I would do the research myself, but am feeling a little low on energy after having to send a staff member out to pick up the dry cleaning.

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:43 pm

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You guys could have put in a warning in the title.

Justin Griffith vs. Greg Laden: Part 2 (WARNING - Contains disturbing images of Greg Laden, Adults Only)

Statistics: Posted by CommanderTuvok — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:43 pm

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Abbie initially shared your views, true, then thought better of it. Part of the reason is that she understood the malignant nature of the opposition, which would stop at nothing (perhaps you'll agree to this).

I am fairly certain that you are not only putting words in Abbie's mouth, but that those words and the implications of her feelings and/or intent, which you assume, are not accurate.

Secondly, Franc today has escalated the rhetoric and pushed it a little closer to overt threat.

I see no threat. I repeat, I see no threat. I see a metaphoric allusion to an imaginary act carried out in the past and presumptive future tense by Zvan. I see no threat. Explain please, and you can easily do so without using any of the words you do not like, the specific promised/implied/suggested future action and/or statement of intent and purpose that is a threat?

Thirdly, I confronted Franc openly, as you can see on the relevant threads. Lsuoma presumably can also read. Someone left in disgust and notified his reasons via PM. What's wrong with that?

Because, ideally, we do not work through Chinese whispers or backchannels or complaints to a non-existent higher aithority. That's "what's wrong with that". Franc does not shoot people. Anyone can confront Franc directly, although they better work pretty hard on making a meaningful and logical argument, because that's something he really does specialize in.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:42 pm

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My guess is that PeeZus makes just too much money from his Baboonery. I know Abbie has expressed her disgust at the way he continues to milk SB for money.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:42 pm

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Justicar has these odd bouts of idiocy every now and again.

Don't worry 'bout him. He'll be alright soon enough. He is somewhat more vulnerable to the Baboon virus than the rest of us.

Statistics: Posted by CommanderTuvok — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:41 pm

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The Amazing Atheist just commented on the video.

"I've long known that P.Z. Myers was this way.
These political correct idiots are hurting outside perceptions of atheist secularist thinking by stirring up pointless drama and inserting meaningless dogma (ironically a big part of what many atheists want to get away from)."

Statistics: Posted by masakari2012 — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:39 pm

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Phil, there are a couple of differences, as I see it. Abbie initially shared your views, true, then thought better of it. Part of the reason is that she understood the malignant nature of the opposition, which would stop at nothing (perhaps you'll agree to this).

Secondly, Franc today has escalated the rhetoric and pushed it a little closer to overt threat.

Thirdly, I confronted Franc openly, as you can see on the relevant threads. Lsuoma presumably can also read. Someone left in disgust and notified his reasons via PM. What's wrong with that?

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:28 pm

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decius wrote:
Giordana, it isn't "guerrilla with Franc". It's an objection over an important matter, if you don't mind.

To answer your loaded question in any case. No, I have no such intention. I just want to know if a consensus can be reached that there are SOME limits. If not, I'll crawl back under the rock where I came from and we shall still be friends.

Decius: why should there be limits here when there weren't any at ERV's Slimepit? The only limits we ever had were the open, readable objections by commenters who didn't agree with X or Y, followed by meaningful debates. Worked like a charm, and it is what made the Slimepit way more interesting and invigorating than the other place.

If we start shooting out PM's to shut posters up, then there is no purpose to this forum at all. As Justicar said, we are adult enough to act as adults. If Franc says or posts something you don't like, just confront him in the open, don't just run to Lsuoma by PM to have him shut Franc up.

That's how things should be done, IMO, for total clarity, without backchannels and such.

Statistics: Posted by Phil_Giordana_FCD — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:23 pm

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Oh my. I feel all fluttery and the davenport is on the other end of the veranda.

Actually, if I were to decide to become a woman, go through the required counseling, take an extended hormone regimen, live as a woman, have the operation and then recuperate, I would totally kick both of you in the jimmies. Which on second thought, would probably be ok without the sex change as violence against outward facing genitals is just plain funny.

Statistics: Posted by HelpingHand — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:13 pm

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Giordana, it isn't "guerrilla with Franc". It's an objection over an important matter, if you don't mind.

To answer your loaded question in any case. No, I have no such intention. I just want to know if a consensus can be reached that there are SOME limits. If not, I'll crawl back under the rock where I came from and we shall still be friends.

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:06 pm

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Shut to fuck up john, you and your fucking facts spoiling narratives,mif you don't aologise i'm going to kick your fucking ass

Statistics: Posted by Za-zen — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:03 pm

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John, I've no intention to argue this all over again, so very briefly and just once, if possible.

You missed an earlier post by Franc, where he peddled a Zazzle button that read "I did X to Y and I survived", where X is in fact a felony in any country, not just the USA.

Then his second post reads something like "I know you really want me to do you X. I won't because I have no time at the moment", whereby X constitutes in fact assault.

To me that's little different than saying "that's a nice house you have there", which is also a metaphor, contains no directly stated intention to harm and yet people are routinely convicted over it.

Your interpretation differs. That's fine. Except, there's probably enough material there for an attorney to build a case for a judge to rule over which interpretation is more correct.

I'm no expert, but let me quote you this.

Intimidation (also called cowing) is intentional behavior that "would cause a person of ordinary sensibilities" fear of injury or harm. It's not necessary to prove that the behavior was so violent as to cause terror or that the victim was actually frightened...

There is no legal definition in English law as to what behavior constitutes "Intimidation", so it is up to the courts to decide on a case by case basis. However, if somebody threatens violence against somebody, then this may be a criminal offence...

Criminal threatening can be the result of verbal threats of violence, physical conduct (such as hand gestures or raised fists), actual physical contact, or even simply the placing of a sign,[7] an object or graffiti on the property of another person with the purpose of coercing or terrorizing...

"Terrorizing" generally means to cause alarm, fright, or dread in another person or inducing apprehension of violence from a hostile or threatening event, person or object. “It is not requisite, in order to constitute this crime, that personal violence should be committed

There is more under cyberbullying that you may not find relevant to this, but someone else could. Undoubtedly a case would be hard to prove, but just disentangling oneself from the accusation of such an ill-defined felony so open to interpretation would be a nightmare.

Then there's an ethical objection to such language. It is not part of rational discourse. I would be interested to know if you think otherwise.

Finally, Franc has opened his very cuntkick blog. All you fans could easily take that part there and stop embarrassing the rest of us.
Why can't you do just that? Why should your free-speech fundamentalism more important than real legal concerns for our host?
If there's no risk, why do you guys keep on laying it on other people's doorstep?

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:02 pm

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Franc-ly i couldn't give a fuck about magic words, and the arbitrary nature of them. I also don't give a flying fuck for the argument that "we" need to enter the politicsl game of tone, in order to cater for others sensibilities, and to try to convince them of the validity of our point. Fuck politically correct assholes, and if the tone cause people to dismiss points, then fuck them too, cause they are the idiots that need to check their dogma, not me.

This is the first time i think i've stated my position on this.

Statistics: Posted by Za-zen — Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:59 pm

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So, decius, basicaly you just wish to continue your guerila with Franc? As I said elsewhere, I thought this place was made so we could express ourselves freely, without causing any damage to Abbie. Why is it that suddenly, with this new PM power you just found, you want to silence others? Most of the people posting here have been posting at ERV's for more than a year regularily now, and here you arrive, after a few days of commenting at the Slimepit (original), and already wanting to impose your own views and prejudices.

That's not gonna work for me. If this place has to become asepticized, then I don't even see the point of leaving ERV in the first place.

Statistics: Posted by Phil_Giordana_FCD — Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:27 pm

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decius said:

Lsuoma did precisely what rational people do. When confronted with a topic they are unfamiliar with, they consult with an expert or get an education about it.

Okay, fine, agreed, somewhat. But Lsuoma did not inform us of what the lawyer's opinion was about the Dreadful Phraze. So, no secret cabals; no Chinese whispers, please.

Instead of enjoying the new settings and do something fucking productive, like you know, not giving any more ammo to our detractors, Franc has decided to push envelopes and see again how far he can go.

I disagree. Franc was being Franc. What he posted was not a threat in any way. It was a metaphor, an allusion to an imaginary act carried out in the past tense and presumptive future tense by Stefunny. I do not see how any educated and intelligent adult could misread it as anything else.

That left me and others who expressed, on ERV, their fundamental objection - by way of reasoned discourse that encountered no serious objections - to hateful language (a circumstance that makes us the haters, apparently).

Yes, but I argue that your defintion of "hateful language" seems to be pretty squishy. What specifically was "hateful" about Franc's comment? Was it the magic word? Was it the hyperbolic, metaphoric, and imaginary assumption that Stefunny likes to or has kicked women? What?

Are you by chance an attorney, John?

No.

If so, please present a cogent argument that could reassure Lsuoma and inform him as to why he can just relax and fuck all.

I did.

Vacuous appeals to free speech of the libertarian type are no substitute for legal competence.

Bafflegab and misrepresentation. You can and have done better, decius.

And as I said, if that particular instance of the Phrase of our Discontent is somehow illegal, or even problematic legally, then the paranoia of the American right wing has won, and even the thought-concept of freedom of speech has left the building and moved, lock, stock, and fainting couch into room 101.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:21 pm

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(urgh just noticed this had a complete topic for the video, cut and pasted from other thread)

Nice video! One of the comments nails the problem right on the head, there are multiple 'sects' of feminism not just one. In fact many people who would have been proud to call themselves 'feminists' in the past no longer do, because of the extremist feminists who have tainted the word. Sad.

I don't suppose TF will show up here.

Statistics: Posted by Dilurk — Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:14 pm

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And that is the problem with feminism...... It's like christianity, you can never nail an adherent down on what the fuck they actually believe, and they provide cover for the extreme wing ( because they have no real objection to it) that men are to blame for absolutely every fucking woe a woman has.

Feminism is by it's most basic tenents divisive, it is not about equality, it is a belief system which in order to have any functional credence relies on perpetuting gender politics.

Statistics: Posted by Za-zen — Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:21 pm

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I just want to say fuck you all before the pit gets fully underway. Absolutely no rhyme or reason for it other than to let each and every one of you know, i ain't interested in your kitties (staffy duck, i'm not referring to your pussy, depite your constant need to relate everything to your vagina and sex power games) i ain't interested in hiw much a nice guy you are, i don't need any more friends, i don't need a safe space (really a safe space on the fucking internet, if you need a safe space online, you need more than a safe space online, you need serious fucking help).

I'm interested in the weight and validity of your argument, and how funny you are, period that's it. I don't want you to like me, i don't give a fuck if you hate me, just be intellectually honest, or to fuck with the niceness i'll call you out, and expect the same from you.

Many thanks for listening to my shit.

Statistics: Posted by Za-zen — Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:05 pm

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Lsuoma did precisely what rational people do. When confronted with a topic they are unfamiliar with, they consult with an expert or get an education about it.

Instead of enjoying the new settings and do something fucking productive, like you know, not giving any more ammo to our detractors, Franc has decided to push envelopes and see again how far he can go.
That left me and others disappointed to say the least. We have already expressed, on ERV, our fundamental objection - by way of reasoned discourse that encountered no serious objections - to hateful language (a circumstance that makes us the haters, apparently).

Are you by chance an attorney, John? If so, please present a cogent argument that could reassure Lsuoma and inform him as to why he can just relax and fuck all. Vacuous appeals to free speech of the libertarian type are no substitute for legal competence.

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:00 pm

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masakari2012 wrote:
Thunderf00t made a new video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1mLHdTsmPc

Nice video! One of the comments nails the problem right on the head, there are multiple 'sects' of feminism not just one. In fact many people who would have been proud to call themselves 'feminists' in the past no longer do, because of the extremist feminists who have tainted the word. Sad.

I don't suppose TF will show up here.

Statistics: Posted by Dilurk — Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:09 pm

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For reference to those who are asking "what the fuck chi wan chan whi who?" below is a nice applicative and musing on the theory.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA470026

Statistics: Posted by Za-zen — Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:27 pm

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Let's try it out.

object

Ahh problem was I was embedding the whole address. Usually that works too.

Statistics: Posted by StueNever — Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:19 pm

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Oh, and the misogyny of KBW should bust a few blood vessels in the Baboollies...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:24 pm

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Dilurk

Exactamundo. That is the chi of the cheng. Firstly they do their standard stunt of piling on anything they view as threatening, secondly dismissing out of hand that what they do is actually bullying, and doing a dear Muslima into the bargain. They are blinded by their dogma, and therefore can't but help to demonstrate to the world just how irrational, dogmatic, and cult like they actually are. The beauty is in the reality, that they will destroy themselves, they can't help it it's their nature because they are utterly in denial.

The cherry just happens to be that skeptics and atheists of the serious variety, and not the pop garden, teen skepty cool, we r da l8test thang, fad emo brigade, see these balloons for who and what they are. Which in theory should limit their speaking gigs to the idiot conferences.

Statistics: Posted by Za-zen — Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:14 pm

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And yes, no surprises there with PeeZus' dishonesty...

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:12 pm

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1mLHdTsmPc&feature=plcp

I can't believe PZ lied to TF, ensuring he could write whatever he wanted on FTB. I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you.

Statistics: Posted by StueNever — Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:00 pm

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Thanks, John, for your thoughts. See this post.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:46 am

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JAB wrote:
Thank you for doing this, Lsouma

For purposes of transparency, I'm going to correct my misspelling of Lsuoma's name in a reply instead of editting

Statistics: Posted by JAB — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:46 am

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Stue - you can embed YouTube vids directly in your posts. Above the edit box there are a list of buttons. The rightmost one (for now) is "youtube".

Click that and it will create an pair of tags for you. Just add the video id between the two tags, and it'll show up in your post.

You would have had to enter o1mLHdTsmPc, thus:

[youtube]o1mLHdTsmPc[/youtube]

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:11 pm

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Stick that fuckin' 'pine
Up yer fuckin' arse!

object

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:51 am

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I respect you Lsuoma, you've done a lot of work to get us all set up in a new home.

My thoughts were that the work of starting this place up was getting to you -- I know what that's like. Back in the late 90s I started up a bbs for gamers who were over 25 or older or somethinglike that. In a very short time it grew to several hundred members from all over the world, and before I knew it, almost everybody hated me. I ended up leaving my Baby, sniff, sniff, about a year or so after I started it up.

I learned a lot from that experience, perhaps the most important lesson being, in the first several months, let the place grow organically, so to speak. Let the disappointed people leave if they must; let the haters hate, as the baboons say. It takes time for a place like this to find its feet, even when it is intended as a sort of emulation of something that went before. Nothing that comes later can ever precisely duplicate something that came before. But we try. We try.

I know it would be very, very difficult for you, after all this is your baby, but I think you should literally take a couple of days off, maybe even a week, from modetating the bbs, and just participate as a voyeur and commenter. I doubt very, very much that anything that legally problematic will appear -- and I doubt very, very much that franc's latest use of the Phrase That Must be Obliterated will cause any legal concerns. Mind you, if it does, then we're all fucked because that means that the the concept of free speech has moved lock, stock, and fainting couch into room 101.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:04 pm

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1-4 sound reasonable to me. And my thanks for getting the board underway.

I suspected some discontent may occur, based on my experience with past board dramas (e.g. IIDB, Talk Rational). After all, the only thing that unites the Slymers really is their nontheistic /skeptics outlook and objections to FTB dogmatism. We range from the more polite and diplomatic to the more vitriolic and provacative, from liberals to libertarians, from accommodationists to confrontationists. So it's like herding cats a little. We normally might be at each other's throats under different circumstances.

Statistics: Posted by Stretchycheese — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:50 am

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The edit time is now set to two minutes - see this posting.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:45 am

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You have done a lot of work setting this place up.

Thank you.

You are probably tired and rather stressed out with all that work.

Relax, and put your feet up. And thanks for the work.

You are probably a bit pissed off at how little thanks you got for it, and now, all of a sudden, you've got some mysterious "Them who won't be named" pissing all over your hearth telling you that Oooh Oooh someone said something I don't like!1!1. And so you are all in a worry-flurry worrying about legal issues, and the American heartland.

Well, take a load off your feet, put 'em up in front of the fire, and let nature take it's course, for a bit.

And thanks for all the work.

I say:

Let's stop scapegoating people we don't like. Scapegoating is something that FfTB does well.

Let's stop playing Chinese whispers about mystery people making mystery accusations. Chinese whispers is something FfTB does very well.

Let's stop arbitrarily dictating language. Arbitrarily dictating language is something FfTB does all too well.

Let's not close threads we don't like with the whistling snap of a crystal meth kneejerk. Closing threads is something that FfTB does all too well.

The slimepit was, and the Slyme Pit should be, about dialogue between adults, including teh bad werds. So franc throws in an other direction cunt kick. Ya, to some it is unpleasant, to others it is meaningless, and yes, the paranoids at FfTB might use it as some kind of ammunition, except you seem to have missed the critical difference in the direction it was going and who was doing the imaginary, fantastic, putative, not real kicking. All the difference in the world.

Let's be a little bit smarter, a little bit more open minded, a little bit more intellectually honest here. We do not need to protect Abbie here. And if someone as intelligent as Paula Kirby cannot understand the metaphorical, imaginary, not real rhetorical hyperbole of the latest version of the Oooh Forbidden Phraze, then perhaps she doesn't need our backing or we hers. Unless, of course, some Slyme People do in fact adhere to the paranoid delusions of Ophelia Benson, who does indeed give truly magical powers to words, both singularily, and in groups like terms and phrases. Ooh. Magic Words. Tremble in fear!

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:24 am

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Agreement with the Greg.

*After* having been a year long reader of the threads at ERV, *and* reading through a hundred or posts here, *and* finding one locked thread with its own vague finger waving of disapproval, I think I know what this kerfluffle is about.

Any other unspoken evil werds of magic that are too terrible to be posted here?

Actually, can we step back and have my confusion addressed? I thought I had been following the plot. Although nothing had ever come down from the Geographic overlords, there was a worry that repeated baboon complaints or the simple presence of harsh language that an advertiser might shy away from could at some indeterminate future date cause Abbie grief. Thus, migrate the baboon mockery elsewhere and let Abbie's site stick to kick ass virology. I missed the part where the presence of evil werds would hold an even stronger taboo at a site where there is no possible threat of theoretical Geographic crack downs.

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:23 am

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John Greg wrote:
Great, so now the new so called slimepit is going to start playing Chinese whispers, locking threads that a couple of people whimper aout teh bad werdz, scapegoating people they don't like, misrepresenting what they say.

Fuck that. That is not what I came here for. If I want to hang out in room 101 I'll go join FfTB.

Yep, same feeling here. That's weird. I think I might just end up going back to my good old AE AtBC and be done with it. Wasn't the purpose of this place to continue the discussion in whatever terms we want without causing any damage to Abbie?

I'm scratching my head in puzzlement right now...

Statistics: Posted by Phil_Giordana_FCD — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:15 am

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I'd be fine with removing the edit feature completely, as long as the preview button stays around. I honestly didn't even notice it was there until there was a discussion about it. Besides the potential for abuse, another possible problem with people constantly going back to edit their comments is that anyone who replies to the content of the original comment might have to keep going back and update their replies to reflect the newly edited comment; I can see this becoming somewhat tiresome over time. (Not to mention it might encourage us to pay closer attention to what we're writing if we know that we can't alter it, even in the first 15 minutes). But I'm not hostile towards the format in play right now, and am willing to see how it works out if others are keen on it.

Statistics: Posted by Saint N. — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:11 am

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Great, so now the new so called slimepit is going to start playing Chinese whispers, locking threads that a couple of people whimper aout teh bad werdz, scapegoating people they don't like, misrepresenting what they say.

Fuck that. That is not what I came here for. If I want to hang out in room 101 I'll go join FfTB.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:07 am

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Thank you, too, John.

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:05 am

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As decius says, you can use the PM system.

As the forums stands at the moment, though, I don't see that there necessarily has to be anything that is strictly similar to Abbie's threads.

At present stats look quite healthy to me:

Image2.jpg
so I see no immediate problem.

Statistics: Posted by Lsuoma — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:04 am

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I just wrote a huge reply to decius, and it vanished. So here goes again.

Decius I chose that song because of the resonance between "Take it Outside" and the title and hook of the song: "Baby it's Cold Outside".

The Cracked.com article associating that song as some kind of a rape quest is utterly fucking ludicrous. Crazy. and Zvan's use of it is a red herring the size of Manhattan. It's a song about a couple of lovers who are trapped indoors on a snowy night, and are playfylly playing love and sex games with each other while having some drinks in front of the fire. It's romantic, playful stuff between two adults who fully intending to have fully fun and playful consensual sex with each other because it's fun, they want to, they are adults, and it's a romantic stormy Christmas night.

Anyone who really thinks this song is about rape has some very serious issues with sex, love, romance, adult play, teasing, flirting, and the world.

OptimusPrimate, I am sorry that the headline hit you so hard. I honestly thought that it would be understood to be a parody of sensationalistic, bombastic, yet empty, newpaper headlines of yore.

And if we have to get rid of edit to satisfy some kind of hardcore paranoia about post modification, okay, let's do it.

Statistics: Posted by John Greg — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:03 am

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No offence whatsoever taken, don't worry.

Statistics: Posted by decius — Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:02 am

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it's fine as a motto.... but are you going to enforce it?

Statistics: Posted by JAB — Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:59 am

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